I think I'm loosing 2nd gear's synchro

"daender" (daender) 02/01/2014 at 15:58 • Filed to: None

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I'm noticing that every time I drive the Miata, it ALWAYS grinds 2nd gear for the first time after starting it up and driving it. After that it's just tough to get into 2nd after leaving a stop in 1st. Yes it's been cold but it shouldn't grind EVERY time like this. XP Yes, I'm shifting it gently, not slamming it into gear and it still grinds.

Have a Scud and a Subi in return.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > daender 02/01/2014 at 16:01

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Sat in one once...even sitting still you can feel that it badly wants to be going around a track at 11/10ths always and forever. The Hulk could sit on the fender and I don't think the springs would compress even a single mm.

My E28 has always done the same thing, and funny enough so do most Ferrari manual boxes. If its been getting worse (mine has to) it might be wearing. But almost every car has trouble with 2nd until fully warmed. Until it starts doing it warm, I wouldn't worry too much, just skip 2nd until you've been driving for a bit. If that's not an option, then you might want to open it up.

LeadfootYT > daender 02/01/2014 at 16:09

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Hmm. My E24 does this a lot (worse when cold, and worse after I got a new shifter and new shifter bushings installed). Can anything be done, other than a transmission rebuild?

JGrabowMSt > daender 02/01/2014 at 16:11

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Dear lawd get that thing fixed.

I had a syncro puke a bearing that got stuck in the gears and then put three holes in the transmission casing. Needless to say, I didn't even go home that night.

As crazedclay said, look at your linkage and the bushings. If they can be adjusted, see if it's just a little out. After the new transmission was put in, I saw that the shop completely ignored my bushings, and they were basically rotten away. I have booger bushings in now, and once they're broken in, it's hard to go back to any others. Just get solid shifter bushings and thank me later.

Alternatively, you could use this as a learning oppo rtunity...buy yourself a used trans that would drop into your car, tear it apart, learn how to rebuild it, and then once it's done, put it in, take the old one, rebuild it, and sell it to cover yourself.

For the sake of everything else in the car, don't drive it until it shits a bearing and all the fluid. That'll just be a bad day for everyone around you when it finally happens, inevitably in traffic. Have fun getting the car to move after that. Mine had to be dragged up a tow truck ramp, kicking and fighting the whole way.

Once_upon_a_pvt > JGrabowMSt 02/01/2014 at 16:21

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At least one person responded not like a jackass. Ppl really said drive till it shits the bed? Really? Fuggin shameful.

Do as this one says. Not only can you recover some cost selling the rebuild, but you'll learn how to rebuild ine regardless. Let it shit the bed, good luck in court when your nuked tranny fuckes up some minivan.

JGrabowMSt > Once_upon_a_pvt 02/01/2014 at 16:37

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Mine happened very suddenly, so it was just a shitshow. Luckily a nice police officer managed to get a tow truck very quickly, as I was sitting at an intersection for about 15 minutes.

Anything that helps you learn about your car is a great thing. I'm really hoping that my next car is one I'm far more interested in. That's not saying I'm not interested in my Neon, it's just not exciting for me. It's a knuckle busting reminder of how I don't get along with my dad. It gets taken care of, I'm just not excited to have it.

If you truly are excited to have your Miata, it's time to treat it as such.

daender > JGrabowMSt 02/01/2014 at 16:47

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I've contacted the local Miata-shop I've been seeing, hoping to have them look at it sometime this month. I feel really uneasy every time it grinds or holding up traffic because it won't go into 2nd smoothly.

MountainCommand > daender 02/01/2014 at 17:04

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Does it go into 2nd at a complete stop? why not just try to start in 2nd, and forget about a 1-2 shift entirely. Until of course you can fully fix the issue.

Im guessing it doesnt get better after the trans has warmed up? Mine is severely affected by the cold. I just skip 2nd gear entirely until after about a mile or 2.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > daender 02/01/2014 at 17:06

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Miles on it? Also what kind of fluid are you running in the gearbox / has it been changed recently?

daender > MountainCommand 02/01/2014 at 17:07

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It goes into 2nd fine while stopped but under load it gives my grief. I haven't tried starting out in 2nd, mostly because past experiences involved lots of stalling.

JGrabowMSt > daender 02/01/2014 at 17:12

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You should be able to double clutch it into gear much more easily. 1st -> clutch -> neutral -> clutch -> 2nd. If that's still a problem, short shift to 3rd. I don't know the shift points on a Miata, but in my Neon, if I take 1st to 3500RPM, I can safely shift to third without worrying about it. I usually shift out of first before 2000, but if I had to short shift, obviously you have to take into account the momentum the car needs, and the revs the engine needs to stay running. Don't worry about a big drop in RPM going to third, just get the car moving faster, and let the clutch up slower and at a lower RPM for 3rd so you can still loosely rev-match the car.

Your speed/momentum is key. I think if you're careful about it, you could short shift safely, and not have to worry about anything until the car gets looked at. Might even be the safest thing to do.

MountainCommand > daender 02/01/2014 at 17:12

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ahh okay. So with the engine running, clutch pedal pushed, you can cycle 1-2 and 2-1 just fine?

2nd gear starts arent bad. Just remember you will be riding the clutch via feathering, its not horrible but logically its a little extra clutch wear. You will need to give it about 10-20% more rpm's to keep from stalling. But it is doable in nearly all situations.

daender > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 02/01/2014 at 17:16

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Just hit 62k miles on it. I think the trans fluid was changed at about 56k or so by Mazda.

daender > MountainCommand 02/01/2014 at 17:16

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Yup, 1-2 and 2-1 at a stop w/ engine on and clutch in is just fine.

I guess I'll resort to this tactic if I'm forced to drive it sometime soon, thanks!

MountainCommand > daender 02/01/2014 at 17:23

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Also, how does your clutch feel? Does it have lots of mileage on it? On MCM with the drag race episode with the s2k and miata, Marty had trouble getting into a gear due to what he said was a clutch issue. Just throwing out possibilities.

im also assuming a 3-2 downshift doesnt work?

But yeah, good luck, and you will get a 2nd gear start down in no time.

daender > MountainCommand 02/01/2014 at 17:32

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Clutch is an Exedy Stage 1 I got as a present, installed at a well-respected Miata performance shop. It has maybe 5 or 6k on it.

Haven't tried downshifting from 3 to 2, haven't had a encounter traffic scenario slow enough to shift between those two gears.

MountainCommand > daender 02/01/2014 at 17:35

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Hmm. Well keep an eye to see if there is any hint of it happening an in another gear.

Id try a 3-2 downshift and see if you get the same results.

Also are 2nd gear synchros on miatas common problems?

wkiernan > daender 02/01/2014 at 18:08

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So what do you guys think is a reasonable price to get a Miata 6-speed transmission pulled, rebuilt and reinstalled? I bought a used '04 Miata with a 6-speed and the shifting was super-vague until I replaced the boots and shifter bushing and the transmission oil. Now it's tight and feels good, except that when it's cold it sometimes doesn't want to slip into second gear; I have to pause about a half-second or else it sometimes grinds just a bit. I never have any problem downshifting into second, even when it's cold. Once it's warmed up I don't have that problem and I can go first-to-second just like zip , but I find it kind of annoying that it doesn't work perfectly.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > daender 02/01/2014 at 18:33

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I would try another oil change on the trans, go with a good synthetic, and make sure the levels are right. See if that helps. Other than that it might be time to rebuild. Of course, you might be able to pick up a decent junk yard trans to use until you can do a full rebuild on the original.

Squid > daender 02/01/2014 at 19:03

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How are the seals on top of your tranny? The shifter turret may need a rebuild and a rebuild kit from moss is about $90, you may want to refresh your tranny fluid with a GL=4 fluid, some people report hard shifting when GL=5 fluid is used.